Meeting 1/99 of School of Computer Science and Software Engineering, student/staff meeting was held on Friday 23 July 1999 at 12 pm in the Seminar Room, Clayton Campus.
Present: Professor David Abramson (Chair), Dr Lloyd Allison, Dr Peter Atkinson, Mr Lachlan Barclay, Ms Sarah Boyd, Dr Damian Conway, Mr Joselito Chua, Assoc Prof Trevor Dix,
Mr Alan Dorin, Dr David Dowe, Dr G Farr, Mrs Karen Fenwick, Ms Viki Giesemann, Mr Charles Greif, Assoc Prof John Hurst, Ms Anita Jawary, Dr Kevin Korb, Mr Benjamin Lee, Mr Gordon Lowe, Dr Ann Nicholson, Mr Andre Oboler, Mr David Ostberg, Ms Kerri Morgon, Ms Debbie Pickett, Mrs Shiranthi Ponniah, Dr Ronald Pose, Dr Sid Ray, Mr John Robinson, Mr Scott Shanley, Mr Amit Pal Singh, Dr Chintha Tellambura, Mr Kongwee Teo, Mr Ian Thomas, Dr Peter Tischer, Assoc Prof Henry Wu, Assoc Prof Ingrid Zukerman
Apologies: Ainsley Castelow
Professor Abramson welcomed everyone and asked each person to introduce themselves. He then asked if there were any general issues or concerns. Since there were no specific issues, he proceeded with the Computer Science First Year Representative.
Mr Andre Oboler said that the advanced first year lectures organized by Dr Graham Farr were very good. It was a good initiative and helped to get to know other students. The Honours students were very helpful before exams clearing doubts.
With electives, SIMS courses and subjects overlapped. The suggestion was given that we should have details on the web to help students. There were not many options available for 1st years. It was either Digital Logic or Professional Communication. Students are not happy with either option. Associate Professor Zukerman suggested that they were free to take electives from other faculties.
Another concern was a timetable clash for the core Maths subjects. It was felt that communication between the Maths department and School of Computer Science and Software Engieering could improve. It was stated that Maths subjects clashed with each other, and this caused major problems.
The students were concerned about the fail rate. They were informed by staff that we would like to pass every student. Dr Nicholson informed them that they had been given extra pracs and tutes and even had extra consultation times. Associate Professor Zukerman felt that the first year students tend to relax after the hard working VCE year and this could be the reason for the failure rate. Prof. Abramson assured them that our failure rates are not significantly higher than other departments.
Ms Jawary suggested that we should have a camp for first year students to get to know staff of the School. She said the atmosphere would be relaxed and in a fun way the students would be introduced to the various staff members and given information which would help them to settle into university life.
Associate Professor Hurst said that we have a host scheme already available for students and most students do not go for camps. Mr Oboler said the host scheme was not appropriate for IT students. It seemed to work well for Science/Arts students.
Regarding Tutors/Demonstrators:
It was stated that some tutors were very good and some were not good at all. The quality of tutors seemed to fluctuate considerably. The students suggested that we bring in tutors from outside industry. Mr Oboler suggested that it might be profitable for outside people if we scheduled a
3-hour prac a break and another 3-hour prac so that they could spend the whole day at Monash.
Mr Thomas stated that this would not be practical and that we have a training week prior to the start of semester. Mr. Thomas said the issue was not just the teaching time but they have to do a lot of preparation beforehand and so it would not be feasible to have outside tutors.
Professor Abramson indicated that it was difficult to attract outside tutors because the pay rates are not competitive with industry salaries.
The students suggested that we should have a computer help desk for student queries.
Mr Thomas reminded them that any doubts or questions should be raised at their prac sessions.
Dr Nicholson brought to their attention that we do have more consultation times that students do not seem to be utilising.
Professor Abramson said that Caulfield campus had a help desk and we will consider doing the same here.
Another suggestion was that at pracs students should be given the option of working through the sessions at a faster or slower pace. Mr. Thomas stated this would be very hard as we get a mixture of students and we do not know the capabilities of every student. He said as a general rule students would prefer to go slow.
Action: Professor Abramson
Mr Barclay said that Dr Albrecht’s subject Formal Methods I (CSE2303) was taught very well. The subject material was well prepared and the method of lecturing was very good.
He also said that the subject Computer Architecture (CSE2324/3324) taught by Dr Pose was well presented. Material covered was relevant. He gave many examples to help students understand the subject matter.
The subject Data Structures and Algorithms (CSE2304) taught by Dr Allison had lots of complaints. His enunciation was not good, students could not hear him very well. He was too technical for students. Lecture material was not explained clearly. Mr Barclay also said that he had not covered lots of topics in pracs and tutes. Professor Abramson agreed to look into this.
Action: Professor Abramson
Formal Methods II (CSE3305/CSC3050)
The students said that in the absence of Professor Crossley during the semester, Dr Dowe and Mr Poemomo stepped in at short notice and helped the students and did a great job. They did appreciate their efforts.
They said there were numerous problems with the teaching material. They felt that students were expected to have a very high level background knowledge of statistics. They also said that you could not follow the material taught if you had not done sufficient mathematics and read the text book. The speed in which the material was taught was too fast. There was too much programming and they could not work it, as it was too time consuming.
They also said that students did express to the lecturer that they were concerned about the speed in which material was covered at lectures. They felt their concerns were ignored.
The acoustics in the theatre was not good and this could also have caused problems.
When they wanted to consult the lecturer they were asked to leave before they had had a chance to meet the lecturer, and they felt this was unfair. Dr Korb said that maybe too many came together. Ms Boyd said that often most students had similar questions and he could have had them all together and answered the question just once.
They also said that the last week before exams Professor Crossley was away and Mr Poemomo who stepped into help tried very hard but had trouble clearing some of their doubts.
The students requested that all assignments should be handed back well before the exam. They were unhappy because some assignments were returned after their exam and this was not helpful.
Dr Nicholson suggested that we should have tutorials for CSE3305/CSC3050 and maybe all core subjects.
Dr Korb pointed out that too many topics had to be covered for this subject in a short time.
Software Engineering: Analysis & Design (CSE3308/CSC3080)
Mr Shanley said that students did not have sufficient assistance. They could only contact the lecturer during lectures and consulation times after the lecture. They would have preferred if they had more assistance.
(a) Exams at Caulfield:
The students raised the issue of having to attend exams at Caulfield. They said this was very inconvenient. Associate Professor Hurst informed them that he had discussed this matter with Examinations but was told nothing could be done about this situation.
Ms Boyd said they were concerned that some marked assignments which were handed back to students via the pigeon holes went missisng . The students like to take note of comments made by lecturers.
Mrs Fenwick will look into this and work out a procedure which will be mutually agreeable.
Action: Mrs Fenwick
Mr Kong Wee said that it was not acceptable to have 6 assignment due dates in the last week of semester. He said that was too much work load for students and requested if we could have them earlier on in the semester.
Mrs Fenwick informed them that at the start of semester we endeavour to spread assignment due dates so that we don't have any clashes. But as the semester progresses, students request for assignment due date extensions, hence this causes clashes and a heavier work load at the end.
Dr Conway informed the students that we cannot schedule assignment due dates earlier on in the semester as we must first know how much material will be covered before we set our dates.
Mr Ostberg said that the feed back had been positive. The students had enjoyed Digital Design and Architecture subjects. They were pleased with lecturers giving adequate time for consultation.
One of the concerns the students had was that they don't seem to have much choice on electives. They felt they were being forced into the computer science area which was not related to their course.
The present third year students felt that the course was watered down. Professor Abramson said that we had not deliberately done that. Mr Greif suggested that the variety may have reduced. We had to avoid duplication with the merger, and with the reduction of subjects, material has been merged and amalgamated within new subjects. Associcate Professor Wu stated that the students preferred more hardware oriented subjects. It was noted that embedded systems overlaps with computer science subjects.
Assocciate Professor Hurst suggested that we could offer subjects as zero credit points but no additional HECS to be paid. The results could go on the academic transfer. Dr Farr said students should do the subject because they enjoy doing it and we should keep the assessment simple. Mr Barclay said this was a good idea and would like this to be pursued.
Usage of Labs:
The students requested having extended hours for the use of labs. They said that Caulfield Campus had access for students from 8am to midnight and they would like the same for Clayton.
Professor Abramson said that our locking systems does not permit us to have this and that Caulfield had the swipe card system which makes it easier. He has been discussing improving access with the Dean for some time.
Mr Ostberg said they could not use the labs during week-ends.
Mr Lowe reminded the students that Room 139 was available normal university hours from Monday – Friday but not on week-ends.
Ms Doktor represented the Honours students and said that they were very pleased with all lectures and they were enjoying their subjects and that they were taught well.
Dr Nicholson said that the feedback she had from the students was that they seemed to be happy and the subjects were challenging and interesting.
The only concern they had was they did not have access to many printers. Ms Doktor said there was a breakdown in one printer. The only printer they had access to was "mlw" which was locked after hours.
Professor Abramson said they were buying more printers and we hope this problem will be rectified.
Mr Oboler said that other faculties have clubs and they would like to have one too and asked if we could provide a room for the students.
Professor Abramson said we tried to start one and were willing to help the students with financial assistance, but they did not show much interest. He said he was open to any suggestions.
Action: Students
Dr Nicholson said she was happy to discuss this with the students.
Action: Dr Nicholson
The meeting closed at 1.40pm.
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